As Claudia has mentioned that Bill Wilson would have totally been on board with TSM the founding members almost ostracized him because of his free thinking. So you can imagine how the '' Hard Liner '' members would react to a non member spreading such " Blasphemy " at an AA meeting. I was a member for 30+ years and was in and out for most of that time. I did however acquire 12 or so years of sobriety in spurts that surely saved my life ( and my liver ). Before AA, Alcoholics had no hope. So I do give credit where credit is due. However AA should be ashamed of its success rate. Its horrible. Can you imagine a being told that you had to go through a medical procedure that promised only a 10-15% success rate. That's AA's success rate. To think that the Hell I've been going through the past 20+ years could have been avoided makes me very angry . If TSM wasn't such a paradox to some of the archaic principles of AA it would be a match made in heaven. When a person does this most unnatural act of consuming the the amounts of alcohol we pour down it our throats it can destroy the very fiber of ones being. The 12 steps could help with that There's more to recovery from A.U.D. than becoming un-addicted.........sorry for the rant...... I'm very passionate about this subject
Hey davewave: Glad you resurrected this thread. Like you, I had some success while in AA and am grateful that my life and liver went AF for those years. But I lived in a conflicted state the whole time. I tried hard to bring my agnostic self to meetings and relationships within the program (and did end up making a few great friends). But I never got over the sense that, as with many doctrines, there was no shortage of circular reasoning going on.
I left after my sponsor cornered me and used AA language to “prove” the existence of god and essentially asked me to accept it or shut up (I rarely acknowledged my agnosticism in meetings, but I did discuss it with the sponsor). I was just plain worn out by the conflict and suspected that I had a neurological problem rather than a spiritual one.
For some time I had a firsthand view into the workings of the AA central services office and its editorial branch. I have never seen anything like it; there’s an unwillingness to evolve that floors me. Floors me.
I agree that a huge and ubiquitous organization committed to helping people with AUD could be an incredible help to us folks using TSM. But the overhaul of doctrine that would be necessary is most likely prohibitive and frankly would threaten the foundation of AA. Bill Wilson is rolling in his grave, I’m sure. Maybe he’s happy about the resurgence of psychedelic research that’s currently going on (hell, without his psychedelic breakthrough, there probably wouldn’t even BE an AA).
Thanks for listening. Like you, I’m passionate about the subject. I hate senseless AA bashing, but I’m grateful for the conversation we’re having.
As the original thread Q was bringing it to AA,that is the place where it is most needed. 85% of the people in those rooms could avoid the misery they are going to go through without TSM. Gotta figure away to get some traction on the movement. I guess surely , eventually it will............The sooner the better.........but I'm not done here on this subject...not yet!!!
Post by runawaytrain on Dec 27, 2018 9:43:21 GMT -5
I would love to have TSMA meetings. It's been my dream to spread the word and to bring TSMers together. As for AA, I have attempted that multiple times and could not get over the depressing concept that you HAVE to hit rock bottom in order to be ready to receive help. I was also hit on when I'd go, guys would make themselves my sponsor (I wouldn't even ask, they'd just be like "I'll be your sponsor") and then just get all creepy. I couldn't make it past 59 days. I'm not religious but I am spiritual, I refer to "the higher power" as the universe, but I don't believe that praying gets you anywhere, the universe works as the universe is meant to and isnt swayed by someone dropping to their knees and talking outloud so not a lot of people were too happy with my beliefs.
I have thought about telling members in AA, but from all the literature I've seen, TSM is not meant for people who have obtained their sobriety, it's only for active drinkers, so the people that are getting their 24 Hour Chip. I worry that those who have many years under their belts would become interested and would start drinking and their deprivation has been growing for so long that they drink more than they were before and possibly get scared and quit and go back to what they know, lowering our success rate due to non compliance and early termination instead of it actually not working. If anything, perhaps pull aside those getting 24 hour chips and those that admit relapse, it's easier to pick off the herd one by one than to take on the whole stampede.
Looking forward to a future worth remembering! I believe in you too!
Gotta luv those 13th steppers(LOL). Don't forget lotta sick folks in those meetings, even after tears of sobriety. It's kinda amazing it works at all. Yea those old timers need to stay right where they are they would be like a "Runawaytrain" if they started drinking again. I gotta believe some where down the road there will be a TSM society of some sort. Hopefully in my lifetime. The more we spread the message the quicker it will happen!!!
"TSM Anonymous" ... that's what going to your family doctor will be one day be - hopefully. My hope is that family doctors will one day fully understand TSM and we will have full HIPAA rules of privacy. I mean, after all, TSM is not that complicated really.
Or at least, perhaps, there will be many local doctors who specialize in TSM treatment and that can keep people on course. I personally have mailed information packets to 50 of my local doctors. There is no excuse for not knowing this science.
On the Sinclair Warriors page of FB has put together a monthly(?) phone in support group. Next meeting is this Sunday. Sorta "TSM-Anoynomous. I asked if I can invite others, although it maybe already filled up, as it's only 25 people.
I received an answer back: IF you're interested, here's the invite:
Writing to extend a warm invitation to you all for the next TSM Meet Up scheduled for Sunday January 20 at 11am Pacific US Time (if you need to know what time that is in your time zone, Google can provide that conversion).
The meeting with be hosted by yours truly
Please note, Claudia is not able to make it this time
As usual, this meeting will be conducted via Zoom - I will send the meeting link and details a few days before the meeting. You can download Zoom for free by visiting zoom.us/.
To save your space, please register here (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-sinclair-method-virtual-meet-up-january-tickets-54662306430)! Please only register if you plan to attend. These tend to fill up so we want to make sure there’s space for folks who want to be there. Thank you!
Hey calijohn, I was dreaming about something like this a few months ago. Do you attend, and what do you think of it?
If you don't mind mentioning to them, they might consider cross-post announcements of meetings on related boards. I won't use my personal FB account for certain topics, and their policy is: "It's against the Facebook Community Standards to maintain more than one personal account."
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